QUOTE (dave m @ Mar 12 2004, 16:49)

no it's not. these 2 boys have been released, and who's to say that they won't commit murder again as adults(if u can call em that). it'd be like the US releasing saddam and bin laden after 10yrs for horrific crimes(saddams millions and bin ladens thousands) thinking they were "rehabilitated" , only for them to commit these crimes again. these boys knew wot they were doin, and some crackpot pissed up judge has decided that these 2 killers should go free. where is the justice in that for poor little Jamie Bulger. can u see the families of the 3,000 killed on 9/11 bein so forgiving to the US administration if bin laden walked free after only 10yrs? i don't think so. i'm currently doin a law course, so i don't think my anology is flawed

I think I have more faith in human nature than a lot of you guys.

QUOTE (Kether @ Mar 12 2004, 20:37)

QUOTE (dave m @ Mar 12 2004, 16:49) no it's not. these 2 boys have been released, and who's to say that they won't commit murder again as adults(if u can call em that). it'd be like the US releasing saddam and bin laden after 10yrs for horrific crimes(saddams millions and bin ladens thousands) thinking they were "rehabilitated" , only for them to commit these crimes again. these boys knew wot they were doin, and some crackpot pissed up judge has decided that these 2 killers should go free. where is the justice in that for poor little Jamie Bulger. can u see the families of the 3,000 killed on 9/11 bein so forgiving to the US administration if bin laden walked free after only 10yrs? i don't think so. i'm currently doin a law course, so i don't think my anology is flawed    I think I have more faith in human nature than a lot of you guys. The same Human nature that will kill people because of Race, Colour or Creed?   I believe people are innocent until proven guilty, they are guilty, everybody knows they are. Why should they be let out? The age thing means nothing, they knew what they were doing so they should serve the same time inside as any other murderer

QUOTE (ChrisT @ Mar 12 2004, 21:13)

QUOTE (Kether @ Mar 12 2004, 20:37) QUOTE (dave m @ Mar 12 2004, 16:49) no it's not. these 2 boys have been released, and who's to say that they won't commit murder again as adults(if u can call em that). it'd be like the US releasing saddam and bin laden after 10yrs for horrific crimes(saddams millions and bin ladens thousands) thinking they were "rehabilitated" , only for them to commit these crimes again. these boys knew wot they were doin, and some crackpot pissed up judge has decided that these 2 killers should go free. where is the justice in that for poor little Jamie Bulger. can u see the families of the 3,000 killed on 9/11 bein so forgiving to the US administration if bin laden walked free after only 10yrs? i don't think so. i'm currently doin a law course, so i don't think my anology is flawed    I think I have more faith in human nature than a lot of you guys. The same Human nature that will kill people because of Race, Colour or Creed?   I believe people are innocent until proven guilty, they are guilty, everybody knows they are. Why should they be let out? The age thing means nothing, they knew what they were doing so they should serve the same time inside as any other murderer

QUOTE (Kether @ Mar 12 2004, 20:37)

QUOTE (dave m @ Mar 12 2004, 16:49) no it's not. these 2 boys have been released, and who's to say that they won't commit murder again as adults(if u can call em that). it'd be like the US releasing saddam and bin laden after 10yrs for horrific crimes(saddams millions and bin ladens thousands) thinking they were "rehabilitated" , only for them to commit these crimes again. these boys knew wot they were doin, and some crackpot pissed up judge has decided that these 2 killers should go free. where is the justice in that for poor little Jamie Bulger. can u see the families of the 3,000 killed on 9/11 bein so forgiving to the US administration if bin laden walked free after only 10yrs? i don't think so. i'm currently doin a law course, so i don't think my anology is flawed  I think I have more faith in human nature than a lot of you guys. possibly the same faith as judge's have????? mmmm wonder why so many people re-offend then after so-called rehabilitation   think about it, we are never gonna know the full exstent of people that re-offend because id say the majority of them havent been cought yet or had enough evidence to prosicute   they may get caught for 1 rape/murder (or suchlikes) but have commited 5-20 that he/she will never be prosicuted for

QUOTE

I think I have more faith in human nature than a lot of you guys.

 

is human nature tortureing and killing a young innocent child for fun?

 

i think human nature has evolved a fair bit to what it was in the cave man age where we beat to death each other to live

QUOTE (Kether @ Mar 12 2004, 12:37)

I think I have more faith in human nature than a lot of you guys.

i know what you mean. i get the impression, sometimes, that certain CTWers would be happy to pull the lever themselves...

 

 

alasdair

QUOTE (alasdairm @ Mar 13 2004, 09:32)

QUOTE (Kether @ Mar 12 2004, 12:37) I think I have more faith in human nature than a lot of you guys. i know what you mean. i get the impression, sometimes, that certain CTWers would be happy to pull the lever themselves...     alasdair Yes but as Lou states, how many peeps commite crimes, do time, then get released only to re-offend again?? Lots.. lets be honest & TBH, IMO the system is all messed up

QUOTE (miss_diddy @ Mar 13 2004, 01:37)

how many peeps commite crimes, do time, then get released only to re-offend again??

i don't know but i'd be interested in the answer? how many is it?

 

alasdair

QUOTE (alasdairm @ Mar 13 2004, 10:08)

QUOTE (miss_diddy @ Mar 13 2004, 01:37) how many peeps commite crimes, do time, then get released only to re-offend again?? i don't know but i'd be interested in the answer? how many is it?   alasdair well I myself do not know how many for sure, but I think I can safely say a fair few hon   but what we have to ask ourselves, is what makes peeps like this?? Is it society, their upbringing, TV or is it in built???

dont know if this helps

 

FIFTY-THIRD REPORT: REDUCING PRISONER REOFFENDING (HC 619)

Edward Leigh MP, Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts, said today that the current approach to reducing prisoner reoffending is failing both the victims and the perpetrators crime.

 

Mr Leigh was speaking as the Committee published 53rd Report of this Session which examines the progress made by the Prison Service in developing programmes to reduce levels of prisoner reoffending. The Committee’s main findings are:

 

Nearly six out of every 10 prisoners are convicted of one or more offences within two years of being released. Breaking this cycle of crime requires action to address drug misuse and offending behaviour, and to improve literacy and numeracy. The effectiveness of many of the Prison Service’s current programmes in these areas has, however, yet to be fully proven, partly reflecting their relatively recent introduction. The Home Office and the Prison Service should obtain and evaluate evidence on which programmes, including joint initiatives between agencies, have a sustainable impact on reducing reoffending.

 

 

well, correct me if i'm wrong, but the argument seems to be based on an assumption that the system is broken because many people are freed to offend again?

 

but how can we even have the discussion if we don't know the actual numbers? perhaps the system actually works pretty well and it's rare for somebody to be released to reoffend given the numbers involved.

 

the figures louise posted are a little vague but they do suggest that reoffending incidence is high. however, that article specifically mentions drug misuse and, given that we are talking about violent crime, it's hard to know how relevant they are here.

 

i agree that, if somebody (one person even) is released to reoffend, then the system is, in a way, broken but you surely have to look at the big picture. also, some people here seem to be assuming these guys will commit another crime. we don't know that.

 

now before anybody jumps on me, i'm not denying for one second that what they did was despicable.

 

your second questio0n is the age old "nature or nurture" argument which has been raging for years without an answer

 

alasdair

well on this particular issue, we are talking about two boys who at the so called tender age of 10, malliciously took the life of an innocent 2year old & appear still not to show any remorse

 

What I personnally worry about, is that at the age of 10, these two lads could find it in them to viciously kill a harmless toddler, so what are they capable of now???

good point. although there is another side to it. we all grow up and mature and learn. do you still act the way you did when you were 10 years old?

 

i'm intrigued by your comment about their not showing any remorse - i can't see anything in this thread which suggests that. do you have a link because that obviously sheds a different light on what we're discussing. ta.

 

alasdair

did it not say earlier on that one of them has already caused hassel since being inside?? maybe remorse is the wrong word Alasdair, my apology, however, yes we do all grow & mature etc, but that does not take away the fact that, two 10 year old lads took the life of an innocent, it was pre-meditated & brutal.

 

Jesus when I was 10, I didnt eben know what murder was!!!

exactly!

 

alasdair