QUOTE (betty boop @ Sep 6 2004, 13:11)

I think the best religion is in the heart, it is about what you feel is right or wrong

Well you can be 'spiritual' without being 'religious'.

 

Sometimes it's good to balance those gut feelings with rational thought though. I mean, to some people it may intuitively seem right to take revenge on somebody, but if you actually stop and think about it there is no real justification.

yep, flip side of it your right.

 

We can only hope for an ideal world one day, where we can all live in harmony, but know it wont be in this life time unfortunately

QUOTE (betty boop @ Sep 6 2004, 13:18)

We can only hope for an ideal world one day

Somehow I doubt it. We may have been around for thousands of years but I don't think human nature has changed that much. I always wonder how close we are to anarchy and regression to neanderthal level, if some major event compromised the 'law & order' that we take for granted.

 

Just look at the way people behave when they get the chance (football hooligans, vigilante gangs, racist political parties, religious zealots, etc).

That is why I said *hope*

 

But do you think, say for instance, we were taught from an early age not to be violent etc, had it drummed into us to be good and love our neighbours etc etc, we could possibly achieve peace?

QUOTE (betty boop @ Sep 6 2004, 13:28)

say for instance, we were taught from an early age not to be violent etc, had it drummed into us to be good and love our neighbours...

"Drummed into us" ... an interesting expression!

 

Do you mean "made to fear the consequences of not behaving"?

Or do you mean having morals "forced" into us? (however you would go about that?)

 

I was certainly taught not to be violent, how about you?

Being taught is fine, but when genetics dictate to a certain degree how we act then it would be seemingly impossible to stop violent acts.

QUOTE (Alex @ Sep 6 2004, 11:13)

Religion is about control. It's a great way to get large numbers of people to obey you and to do so without question.

Religion is for people who are too thick or entrenched to grasp philosophy.

QUOTE (Kether @ Sep 6 2004, 13:38)

QUOTE (Alex @ Sep 6 2004, 11:13) Religion is about control.  It's a great way to get large numbers of people to obey you and to do so without question. Religion is for people who are too thick or entrenched to grasp philosophy. Ah... that too.   Hmm... I'm begining to sound like the "Spanish Inquisition" sketch by Monty Python.

Intresting debate but just one article from 'What is Scientology website'changed it all......'Scientology churches and their members are committed to handling the drug problem. The technology developed by L. Ron Hubbard to handle the life ruining effects of drugs is used in churches of Scientology and many secular programs around the world'....i was just about to join up too!

 

 

I am mean taught as in, it being all we know, to be nice and good say. Did that sentance make sense?

 

Lets say for instance a child is brought up in a violent home, left to watch violent films so on and so on, all that child will know is bad and possible be bad themselves, but if a child is brought up surrounded by good and love etc etc, not shown any violence, do you think it could work?

 

Again im talking on an ideal world senario, but is it like Alex said, within us all somewhere we have a streak of bad?

QUOTE (betty boop @ Sep 6 2004, 13:41)

I am mean taught as in, it being all we know, to be nice and good say. Did that sentance make sense? Lets say for instance a child is brought up in a violent home, left to watch violent films so on and so on, all that child will know is bad and possible be bad themselves, but if a child is brought up surrounded by good and love etc etc, not shown any violence, do you think it could work? Again im talking on an ideal world senario, but is it like Alex said, within us all somewhere we have a streak of bad?

Define bad.

 

For instance, in some cultures you'd get stoned for running down the street naked. Does doing that make you a bad person?

 

Surely good and bad are societal constructs instilled on us by our cultures and upbringing. I believe we have no notion of good or bad unless we were taught.

 

It's sometimes comforting to imagine that we have a conscience that lets us know innately right from wrong but I don't think it exists. I believe it's only experience that teaches us right from wrong.

 

If you believe Freud, each person is driven by their base instincts (to eat and mate etc), it's society that instills a conscience in us and the fear of castigation if we go against these rules. If this is the case, everyone has a "bad" streak in them as defined by our cultures but it's an artificial construct.

QUOTE (Kether @ Sep 6 2004, 13:50)

Surely good and bad are societal constructs instilled on us by our cultures and upbringing.

Nice noun phrase. Kether wins the Best Use Of English Of The Day award.

QUOTE (betty boop @ Sep 6 2004, 05:41)

Lets say for instance a child is brought up in a violent home, left to watch violent films so on and so on, all that child will know is bad and possible be bad themselves, but if a child is brought up surrounded by good and love etc etc, not shown any violence, do you think it could work?

nature or nurture? that's an old chestnut to which there will perhaps never be an answer.

 

think about it - (as far as we know) humans are the only species who will kill one of their own kind for a belief.

 

i don't believe that hate offers any evolutionary advantage. i believe that you have to be taught to hate.

 

anybody interested in Religion generally should do some reading on the subject of memes. it's a pretty interesting subject.

 

alasdair

 

QUOTE (alasdairm @ Sep 6 2004, 16:01)

anybody interested in Religion generally should do some reading on the subject of memes.

^ yeah that

Al: have you read The Selfish Gene?