this site

[Guest]

i fell i have to make a few comments about ctw and this site. and before creamy starts id also like to say im anon because if we post as members we get blastded for it from sarah and have the piss taken out of us by creamy. firstly, id like to say that after being a member on here for some time now ive seen how [censored] this site has got not only is it turned into one of the most boriung sites now but its atracted the biggest dicks ive ever come across. i am a member of the tidy board 4clubbers harderfaster a gurn and always fought ClubtheWorld was the best of them all but not any more, there are so many idiots on here now, peple always seem to take the piss or be better then anyone else, its fuking annoyin. as members james and creamy pointed out that this is 'our' site, the members but the last few months it hasnt felt that way, we make a comment about to mcuh hh, we get told its not like that but it is- no one seems to giva [censored] no more, specially not the so called admins who do nothing more than praise themselves saying what hard work theyve done for this site, ive only ever been to 2 ctw events and they were v average. i dont care wot anyone says to be honest, its what i feel and i know a hell of a lot of others also feel the same but once ahgain are to scared to say anything. this is no longer a members site, its jst another 4clubbers, full of hyprocrites, u get creamy going on about not shagging other peoples birds yet hes the one shagging someones ex, u get james telling us that all these exctiting new things happening yet nothing is done and we get sarah gobbing off about djs weve never heard off and telling us she knows djs when she dont, its quite embarasing sarah to be honest. i respected james and creamy for the ideas they came up with for this site but its gone completely wronng, they have done ntoing about it, let it go to [censored] because sarah and her cronies are taking over with their constant hh bullshit and attitude. u get ignored when u go out with her when shes out and only has time for her crew or shes to [censored], why creamy has to act such a prick on the site i dont know and james talks bollox so much now that no one believes him no more. wots all this dj forum all about now, & we are told this forums not clickeuy, it fuckin is, a personal forum for djs, thats nice for other members realy aint it, members site yeah, treat it like a members site then and not one for djs to bask in glory. this site is being used for other peoples means its so much [censored] its unreal, this post has also proberbly been a waste of time but i think its time peoples said something instaed of sittin there agreeing all the time.

 

[Don]

Interesting..... Any of the admins have something to say about this?

 

I have to say in defense of Creamy, he's a good lad in real life - his on-line persona is one to be taken tongue firmly in cheek.

 

Everything else I can't really comment on.... what say you other people?

[TomD]

i have to admit i was going to make a similar post, but next week after my exams were done. can't really make my comment about this in the length i'd like to right now because i'm just about go to out, but i say two things:

 

the timing is pretty unfair - james & sarah are in ibiza so can't really respond to your comments until they get back, and will be greeted by a [possible] deluge of replies, both positive and negative and they'll be playing catch-up on this discussion. even if they check the board while they're out there, it's not something that they'll be wanting to see. perhaps this could have waited.

 

secondly, and this is a way more important point - i don't agree with your excuse that you needed to stay anonymous to make this post. your comments are all perfectly valid and if they're about the site, since you're a member, you're perfectly entitled to make any suggestions you like. the threat of kev coming on and taking the piss is hardly life-threatening.

 

pick up 10 points for your comments,

but no score for the anon post.

[Rick D]

Tom - I can personally see why this was posted Anon. As was said about Sarah, she would just start on this member and get pissed off and take nothing on board... I don't mind saying whatever I say under my own user name due to the fact that I don't give a [censored] what people think of me or whether they listen, but it seems some people do care...

 

OK, so it was posted while James and Sarah were out of the country, but they will have no problem getting to a computer I feel...

 

Anon - I think you are being a little hard on Kev, he is a good bloke, has a very dry sense of humour and is one of the few people who are honest on here, a lot of people do not understand his humour, but then I don't think it would be funny if he toned it down...

 

As for the DJ forum... Yes I agree this is a bit of a piss take, but then the admins could just make it an invisible forum, though I don't really see the need for it in the first place as there are already quite a few music/production etc forums...

 

I personally don't go on 4butters as I never liked it... I am on Gurn though and would hate to see this place turn into something like that, even though I sometimes enjoy gurn, it can get way too childish...

 

As for James, he needs to work out what he wants and to realise that he will never get on with everyone and stop trying to see the good in everyone... He needs to draw up a set of rules for the forums and needs to be more honest with himself and others (I know he'll just dimiss this part, but I have to add it as I think it is a major problem)...

 

Sarah can come across as being a very harsh person and she doesn't seem to like listening to people... Everyone except her close knit group has trouble trying to speak to her when she is out, not just new members... She also needs to stop favouring one or two DJ's in the agency side and help out the others... If I was a promoter and I had the agency representative getting in the state she does (i.e. going under in clubs!), I would have trouble booking any of the DJ's twice due to not having a gaurantee they will turn up, I would rather book someone who looks and acts a little more professionally...

 

I am probably going to get slated for all I have written here, but as you pointed out, it needs to be said...

[Pepsi]

I love this site, being on here has helped through some difficult times and the friends I have made are some of my closest. I hate to say it but I think it has gone slightly down hill.

 

The problem I have found on this board recently that all the jesting that used to be funny on the board now has this really harsh nasty side to it. I think that any new people who come on and read this will think we are just like Gurn. Moderators need to be a lot tougher on wat they allow to be said on the board.

 

The reason that clubtheworld stood out from all the other message boards was because it was friendly once u lose that u will become just the same as all the other boards. People aren't gonna come to clubtheworld nights if they think they are gonna be as unfriendly as this site is becoming.

 

I think a lot of people are being unfair to James. He has a full time job and at the same time has to run this site, I don't think people realise how much work he has to do. Therefore he has a lot of ideas but maybe not the time to carry them out. People should be offering to help rather than critising.

 

I don't think its something that is irrepairable just that moderators should be a little more assertive on wat is and isn't acceptible.

 

I love this site and hope that this all gets sorted out. I know how much work does go into it and it would be a waste if its left to go down hill now.

[CreamyC]

I will comment in full on this but I want to cover ALL possible points.

[Scream]

With the takin the piss side it's hard because after all this is text and we can't work out if someone is being serious or not as there is no expression or tone in text. We make a wrong call and think they are and say something in defence that is harsh and we're on that ever slippery slide.

 

Sayin the site is to much hh well yeah it is in some respects but a lot of people like that here. There are becoming more demands and you just have to look in the club event suggestions. It's slowly gettin more nights that are different so it's happening. You can't expect it to change over night or in a couple of months. You might say how are they going to attrack a different crowd if they don't catter for it.

 

You also fail to realise that james has a full time job and doesn't just run this. You might know he has a job but maybe don't realise how much work he has to do. So things take time in being developed.

 

Yes kev comes across as a total dick on the site but you can pretty much ask anyone that he's got a heart of gold when you meet him. We might all act differently in some way on here than we do when we meet each other in person.

 

Saying that you've only been to 2 ctw nights and then saying they were only average well, ummmm do you think when GC started or SS or any other club started it was as big as it was now. lol. It takes time, surely you know that??

 

You're a victem of your own words, you feel that you have to hide behind the anon factor to slate people off. Isn't this slating view on the board that you're angry about? Surely if you feel so strongly in that then why do you feel the need to hide behind a mask to slate, sarah, james and kev?

 

I can understand about the other points why you might want to be anon but you went a little to far.

 

In the end of the day things change. I admit i don't come on here half as much as i used to. But no one is making you stay here. But obviously you want to carry on posting otherwise you wouldn't of posted this post in anon. OR did you just want to see the reaction it provoked? It's your opinion and you're welcome to it, after all we live in a democracy.

[NeoN]

Scream

[CreamyC]

Scream said:

Yes kev comes across as a total dick on the site but you can pretty much ask anyone that he's got a heart of gold when you meet him.

 

You evil bastard for saying that, what you trying to do me? Ruin me?

[Don]

Secret's out mate!

[fintbeast]

Sorry if this seems a little non sequitur, but I've lifted it straight out of post I made in the 'I deleted the who do you hate off ctw thread' thread in Random Bollox. Thought it was relevant to this debate as the key behind all hard feelings and frustration is normally a failure of expectations...if people expect things to happen in a certain way (due to a misleading mission statement for instance!!) they will get upset / angry / frustrated if things happen differently...anyway here it is for what it's worth :

 

'Well frankly this is all so much bollocks! It is so [censored] tedious hearing the same [censored] cropping up again and again...there is no need for everybody to get on with everyone else all the time...it doesn't happen in 'REAL LIFE' - why do people expect it to happen on here?

 

This site really needs to sort out what it wants to be:

 

If it's a breeding ground and forum for up and coming djs and event promotion...then it needs to be more professional;

 

If it's a forum for helping people to organise a wicked night out with like-minded people ...then there shouldn't be room for people to slag each other off in public.

 

If you want it to be a place where people can have rational, frank, adult discussions about safety issues in recreational drug use...then such forums need to be moderated carefully and responsibly.

 

If people want to chew the fat about their day / weekend / gripes / grievances / getting mashed etc...they should be able to do this in private (i.e. chat or pm - both available already!) or in forums that really are moderated.

 

Why do a minority of punters have to regress to playground tactics of bitching at each other in public and trying to demonstrate how clever they are or - worse still - by hiding, in a cowardly fashion, behind the anonymous tag and taking potshots at people who are then provoked into equally stupid reactions.

 

Those (very few of you) that know me, will be well aware that there are people on this site that I don't have particularly high opinions of. I will happily talk about this amongst friends and I won't show two faces to the people / person in question. If I can, I avoid seeing these people. This is what you do in 'REAL LIFE'. Logging on to this site is pure escapism in the same vein as watching a good film or reading a good book...if of slightly less cultural / intellectual value.

 

You can take the site any way you want: it can be highly amusing, very irritating, dull or just plain weird. If these are all things which the site aspires to then congratulations you're doing a great job...if there are other aims and objectives behind the site then some things may need re-assessing...'

 

SO THAT WAS THAT...also...

 

I'm quite happy to post under my own name that I agree with anybody who's had a good word to say about Creamy...he's not the most reliable of people for actually coming out when he says it (through no fault of his own...sometimes!) but when he is there, you can count on him to be 100% genuine and to listen when you're talking with him.

 

I've got nothing to say about James, because I feel I've never really met him...poor Don has had the pleasure of being mistaken for me by James . I appreciate that James has a lot on his plate and trying to do a lot of different things is dificult. I just think the site would run a lot more smoothly if it knew what it was trying to be and if the mods / admins knew what they were supposed to do.

 

As for Sarah, sorry to do this, like you said Rick, while she's out of the country, but I do agree that she's very hard to talk to...to the point where you feel the need to question her motives for being involved...and certainly to the point where you think she doesn't give a rat's ass.

 

I think this is all valid...I'm not just having a dig at individuals that I don't like. Is it just me or is this all valid, constructive criticism?...amd sorry it's so bloody long.

[TomD]

right well here goes

 

clubtheworld is an amazing concept. it's taking the idea of an online community that one step further where meet-ups are central to its working and its future. you have a common interest, you join up, you meet folk from across the country -- potentially the world -- who are all into this same interest as you, but with the extra bonus that you actually meet them face-to-face and see how they do it where they live.

 

nine months ago when i joined, that's what this site was; a core community of members dedicated to meet-ups in their area. now i'll admit freely that i've not been the best at making meet-ups, but i would hope that that could be forgiven considering the location of most of the meet-ups means it's prohibitive for me to go to very many of them, on a student budget as well. but i did join precisely for the aim of going to clubs elsewhere across the country and meeting other folk IRL, not just avatars on a message board. i've been to the prestatyn, to london, to sheffield, even back to my hometown of wakefield and had reasonably good nights out.

 

my beef with the site at the moment is not the current "aggro" between certain members. that's everyday life -- you can't expect to get on with everyone -- i know i certainly don't, and i prefer not to beat about the bush if i don't get on with someone, like up here. find your distance from someone, try to avoid situations where you'll get your back up getting aggravated with them, and get on with your life. as the site grows with more members, this obviously becomes an issue. firstly, you're going to get issues between members who like different musical genres and especially from those who are pretty narrow-minded when it comes to different tastes, but then more serious "issues" will obviously crop up between individual members whose personalities just clash and simple discussions end up in arguments.

 

all the group hugs in the world won't solve things like that, it's human nature; we can't get on with everyone all the time and we can't expect to. i think it's naive to expect that just because we're all part of one online community that for some reason that will force us all to be best mates with each other. it's not going to happen and EVERYONE needs to realise that from the outset, and if what people have been saying about James's comments towards Jus have been true, then James needs to realise this too. no offence to you james, but it just isn't possible to please everyone. sometimes you have to learn to say NO.

 

the real grunting and foot-stamping recently appears to be just centred around a few people who don't get on with one person. fine, fair enough -- but it has no link whatsoever to the standard level of banter on ctw. what i've argued before is that a bit of harshing here and there, some random comedy insults, and the odd inappropriate use of smileys, serves to break down barriers between members, especially those who are new. you know where you stand with them. it's obviously important to know that these insults are only intended as a joke, but i think anyone could see that, and, if not, drop a couple of smileys in there just to hit the message home. we are all young, pretty intelligent people and i know i'm not the only one in saying that i find it a lot easier to get on with people when i know where i stand with them, particularly on the play-arguing/play-fighting issue. kev knows, as i do, that when he posts an insulting message to someone -- especially a new member -- that he doesn't mean it seriously and it should be taken with a pinch of salt. it loosens people up from all the stiffness that too many and bring. if you've started a relationship with someone that's purely based on all smiles and hugs, what happens when you do actually disagree on something? do you hold back from what you're wanting to say because you think you'll offend them or damage their fragile mind? i'm aware i haven't explained myself very well here, and there's another post i made a couple of months back where i explain my feelings on this a lot better than now, so i'll go find it later and post a link to it.

 

the most important gripe that i have with clubtheworld just now is not the relationship between the members, not the spam or anything, it's the future direction of the site as a whole.

 

james insists that the site will always be for the members, and that income is not an issue. he's always strongly solicited input, suggestions and comments, and actually taking on board what people have to say, which is rare, and makes members feel more a part of the site and that their opinion matters, but it's been small things up until now -- meet-ups, colourscheme, logos -- whereas my main comment is about the wider issue of the future of this community as a whole.

 

what anonymous raises is a point which i was going to make in a post next week, and that's that clubtheworld is slipping away from being of benefit to its members first and foremost. i for one feel more and more like i'm here merely to line the pockets of the increasing number of promoters who come on here to "discuss" their events and let us all know how great they are, because this site is a soft touch towards spam and self-promotion. to have promoters and DJs actually resident on-board to promote their nights, call on members to "support them", influencing the ctw members "clubbing schedule" (if you like) is clever marketing, but also sickeningly selfish. to then combine what's a community of clubbers with a company that provides DJs is not moving the site further forward, but moving it away from its original aims entirely. having experienced one "official ctw night" in wakefield in april, i can honestly say that i probably won't be going to one again for a long time. the wakefield night was poorly organised, badly attended and the only thing i gained out of it was seeing people who i'd wanted to see again for a good few weeks, not the music. what the promoters gained were DJs, a guaranteed number of people through the door, and cash-in-pocket. and as the cars drove off at 3am for the meet-up the next day that was sundissential north (which even though far bigger, and far more well-attended, was not an "official night"), i ended up feeling slightly betrayed for the fact that essentially it was a mediocre night in wakefield that had abused the clubtheworld name to attract someone from 200 miles away just for the sake of that little bit of extra takings from the ticket kiosk. having said that, i had a good night while i was there, but it was the company that made it special, NOT the promotion.

 

then every week, more DJs and promoters join the board to come on, promote their own nights or tune releases, and very occasionally entertain us all with the odd attempt at "joining the community" with a witty post or remark, but ultimately it leaves a bad taste in the mouth when large meet-ups are being arranged and members are encouraged to attend merely on the strength of some DJ's encouragement, with his/her number of posts not even reaching the fifty mark. it's abuse of the community spirit. the separate Spinback DJs-only board just reinforces this. i won't beat about the bush when i say i don't think this mergershould have never been allowed to happen. a site where the members have always come first comes to a point where there's now a special area they're not even allowed to contribute to -- where is the benefit to the members here? some big news announcement created an atmosphere of excitement, only to find out that the news was really of interest only to a select minority of members who would stand to gain personally from it. this is the real issue i have. now the site seems to have two juxtaposing aims -- how can you arrange meet-ups at new clubs around the country, and even the world, when your existing commitment is there to the "board DJs", their events, and CTW's own promotions? you feel like you're letting your "co-members" down by not going to a night they're playing at. a meet-up suddenly becomes "official" just because somebody has the modding rights to pin a topic that they want to.

 

so as the site becomes focused on running its own nights and promotions, the original aim slips into second or third priority. the clubtheworld event schedule has now become a worryingly predictable selection of regular attendances at the same clubs -- sundissential, serious, tidy -- where has the passion gone for clubbing across the country and where's the variety of meet-ups across different genres? i didn't join up solely to go to hard house & trance clubs, otherwise i would have left the site at the registration form (i'm more of a prog & techno man myself), but i did have a passion for travelling and seeing new places -- where is this now? we have a core group of members who will travel for their favourite clubs but it's the same names who crop up time and time again. and it becomes a vicious circle -- as the board slowly gets a reputation for essentially being a "two genres", "three clubs" community (this statement intentionally exaggerated), new members join in local areas who aren't really committed to travelling at all, or going to clubs that don't necessarily play the latest Nukleuz hard-trancer. having "funky house" as a token third genre is a cop-out. there is much more to dance music and club culture than these three rather clearly-defined styles. countless times people have suggested a prog night or a techno night and it's just the same names who reply, and the same names on the list -- it's a decreasing percentage of members that seem to want to try anything new or open their mind *just* slightly. admittedly, though, this is where ctw's influence ends -- you can't *force* anyone to go to a club they don't want to, BUT does the lack of interest mean then that an increasing majority of members aren't really here for what the site was intended for? and that it's just not being promoted to a broad cross-section of clubbers any more? the heavily hard/trance-biased content on the main site probably proves this, in the reviews and interviews on offer.

 

 

i agree with what's been said about sarah, my first meet-up last november worried me greatly at the time with what was happening. i thought i was the only one who was worried as to what was going on, but i was reassured by someone else that this happened "all the time". when you are meant to be in charge of running a sizeable community and you could be the first face that people recognise in real life, i think how you carry yourself is incredibly important. first impressions last.

 

 

i come on clubtheworld every day for the banter and to check the forthcoming events. i love the site -- i've recently admitted to myself that it's actually quite difficult to spend a day without coming on -- but i just wanted to have my views heard on this matter. whether anyone agrees with them, i don't care, i just wanted to express how i feel about various things, and i would hope that James and Sarah don't take this dig personally AT ALL, because it's not intended to be, merely a staggeringly-long essay summing up my own opinions.

 

cheers for taking the time to read and i look forward to getting a reply... please keep it public though, not PMs.

[CreamyC]

Post deleted by CreamyC

[fintbeast]

Tom

 

Never met you, mate...chances are, never will (although prog trance and techno are really starting to take me places...find me a night with tech trance in one room and progressive in the other and I may be tempted )

 

Anyway just wanted to say, I really agree with most of what you say

 

Is a consensus developing here?

[neet]

Well I don't come on here half as much as I used to. Just have the odd minute reading the posts now and again.

 

Unfortunately I never got round to meeting any of you, and last year this was one of my main priorities. Now, it is the last thing on my mind. Maybe I get ignored because I haven't met any of you, or because I'm not on here every night, or don't really do the msn thing.

Well, I do have a very busy life, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to do a few good nights out. Unfortunately, looks like I'll be doing these by myself in future

 

Think I'm gonna give up on the message board thing, they often seem to go tits up as far as I can see, even if the owners intentions are great.