ctw The moderation on this site is wank...

[Rick D]

CreamyC said:

85 posts and still I have not recieved ONE example of Jack being a out of order with his moderating.

 

Please Note: Admins can check what Mods are moving what, Jack has hardly moved, deleted or closed ANY posts since he was made Mod and what he action he has taken has my full backing so please for the 85th time please give me some examples. If you cant then please dont reply no further to this post because for you lot to keep going on is [censored] ridiculous.

 

I repeat for those of you ignorant enough to ignore comments made by Kether. We can have as many Mods as we want on here but Off Topic or un relevant posts will STILL be missed, itd up to others to let us know about it. And before I hear some lame excuse about telling us in Posts well then thats just poiuntless because we dont read every post. Do us and yourself a favour and TELL SOMEONE, dont just sit on your arse and expect a Mod to do it. Only TWO people have ever reported such posts and they are tidy turd and alasdairm. If no one can be bothered to tell us then dont bother your arse moaning.

Funny, this post wasn't started because Jack's a 'wank' moderator... My main beef was with James and the shitty job of 'moderating' that he does...

 

If you want an example of why Jack shouldn't be a mod though, look no further than the post that Lisa put up about the 15 year old girl... His opinions on that are bang out of order for a mod... He would rather watch someone die in a club than help them according to that... I'm sure none of the rest of you 'moderators' would condone that, but from the looks of that post, you do...

[CreamyC]

But who did you tell at the time to delete it ?

[CreamyC]

Admittedly, I have made mistakes, none of the new mods have been given any real guidelines so they dont really know what to delete and what not but please peeps, this is NOT their fault, they are new to this and I am confident after a few more days, maybe weeks things will get better and there will be no more real major issues. From now on please let someone know if either you have a problem with what a mod has done or said or if you are not happy with the response then please speak to Don who will deal with it.

 

The reasons the new mods were made were because they are on here the most and can oversee situations getting out of hand, me and James were not picking up on a few posts and then there were complaints. Further Mods were brought in to improve the situation, not make it worse so please guys, bare with it for a while.

[Rick D]

And that still doesn't answer the post about James' very selective moderating, but then I guess it's his sight and he likes being a little hitler...

[Don]

Al, as usual being the flashlight in the darkness of bickering.

 

Everyone - we need to take two seperate aspects of this argument. Take the personal stuff out of it, and look at everything else.

 

Most of the arguments here are due to the fact some post and not others have been moderated (harshly or not). Us moderators are humans, and therefore fallible. We will make mistakes, and our opinions will differ from each other. I am working on a set of guidelines for Mods that will be published. Nothing will chage - promise. It will be written down though.

 

A general observation, is that some people are having trouble keeping to the forums designs. If you want banter, chat and random swearing, then go to random bollox, FAO and all the other forums that allow that - the Serious issues forum is not for that. We do allow a modicum of this, either to prove points, help conversations or just to lighten a subject. If ANYONE is having trouble with this, then you know where to go.

 

Another observation is that if you do have a personal problem with someone, then PM them. Don't make it public all the times people - it won't help this board if you do. That applies to EVERYONE.

 

If you are having trouble with the way a topic is being moderated, then please PM me. I will sort it out one way or another (don't worry, I'm not power-tripping!). Let me also say that I have full confidence in all the Mods - hopefully the vocal minority will grow to trust them also.

[CreamyC]

rickd said:

And that still doesn't answer the post about James' very selective moderating, but then I guess it's his sight and he likes being a little hitler...

 

Rick, I cannot and will not answer for James, thats something I believe you and James have to discuss off the board and deal with, I personally think that this has gone on long enough on the board and it needs to be sorted because this is going nowhere. I was making a point in defence of the mods who have been brought in to improve the situation and who I personally feel have been wrongly accused of certain issues. We do have to clear this up and quick because this is continually happening, like I've said if you have a problem with certain moderating of a moderator in particular then please let that individual know.

[Bukey]

Get ready for Bukey's rant....

 

To those that make the point that it's easy to criticise and don't help - I do/have.

 

I have offered advise, help and guidance to admins, mods and crew - using personal thoughts, beliefs and experience. I've also recently provided them with two very indepth articles on online communities, how they work, what they're about and moderation of.

 

Where I've disagreed with things, I've told them in private - I've tried to keep from causing an uproar in public, because that's not what the site has needed.

 

However, as things are at this stage I really do need to get a few things off my chest.

 

Most, if not all of my suggestions have been totally, and utterly ignored. Or, they'll be done ASAP....

 

For 4 - 8 weeks now I've expressed the need for clear rules, for procedures to deal with rule breaking - and for everyone to know what those rules and procedures are. Without rules and people knowing what they are, you can't fairly give them a chance to behave. After that you can't treat them fairly with repremands that get applied equally across a level playing field. It would also help moderators understand how they should be working, rather than leaving it to their judgement just for them to be slated.

 

There are loads of double standards on this site. I will offer an example.

 

I'm constantly (as a group, not an individual) called a sheep for liking TDV, Sundissential and Tidy. Doesn't matter that I actually like other producers, DJs, clubs, recod labels and events organisers - like my friends that like TDV, Sundissential and Tidy. That doesn't matter we're all ready [censored] sheep. Everytime I point out that I have a wide diversity and don't just do Sundissential, Tidy and TDV, this conveniently gets ignored by the sheep-name-calling brigade. I always give reasoned arguments, that they can never come back to and discuss properly with me with. I can probably, thinking about it, only name the one time people have come back to discuss things through properly.

 

Let's look at the specific example in this thread:

 

- One person calls a group a twat.

- Another asks if the "twat-caller" holds this belief, or belongs to a sheep-calling-sheep-bandwagon.

 

Personally, I'd say calling someone a twat is much more offensive than calling someone a sheep. Let alone only asking if they are a sheep. But the twat-calling post only gets edited, the sheep-questioning post gets deleted.

 

Double standard #1: Both posts should have been treated equally - either both deleted, or both edited.

 

Double standard #2: It's always been acceptable for every other fooker to call me, my friends, and others that have the same tastes in some areas sheep. They've never been moderated, told off, warned... And there's been no notification that this is now unacceptable, if indeed the policies have changed.

 

Of course, you don't have to let people know what the rules of the site are. You don't have to answer to anyone. But if people don't know what the rules are, they get "moderated to hell" and can't use the site properly, they'll just fook off. They'll also tell everyone about their bad time here. Site membership will dwindle, and you'll have a hard time getting new Members. You'll have a tiny community of 10 active Members, and that'll be it. I note with interest on at least one other site moderating tactics have lead to everyone over hear being called "Nazis" - and this is *not* RickD's doing, despite him feeling the same way about moderation as explained further up in the thread.

 

The choice that now has to be made is if you actually want ClubTheWorld to exist, to move forward and to grow.

[Don]

Bukey - I agree and it is entirely my fault - I just haven't had the time to do this. It will be posted shortly (God, good weather and *$!*%*** microshite willing).

 

Kev - spot on Sir.

[alasdairm]

rickd said:

If you want an example of why Jack shouldn't be a mod though, look no further than the post that Lisa put up about the 15 year old girl... His opinions on that are bang out of order for a mod...

 

i think you misunderstand.

 

what does that have to do with his ability to perform his duties as a moderator? don't confuse the art with the artist, as they say...

 

elsewhere in this thread you implicitly praised people for speaking their minds ("some people speak their minds whereas others are quite happy to be sheep...")

 

make your mind up!

 

it seems some people feel that everybody is entitled to an opinion. unless they are a moderator. if that's not a double standard, what is?

 

alasdair

 

 

[Rick D]

CreamyC said:

rickd said:

And that still doesn't answer the post about James' very selective moderating, but then I guess it's his sight and he likes being a little hitler...

 

Rick, I cannot and will not answer for James, thats something I believe you and James have to discuss off the board and deal with, I personally think that this has gone on long enough on the board and it needs to be sorted because this is going nowhere. I was making a point in defence of the mods who have been brought in to improve the situation and who I personally feel have been wrongly accused of certain issues. We do have to clear this up and quick because this is continually happening, like I've said if you have a problem with certain moderating of a moderator in particular then please let that individual know.

I have let him know, but he gets you to post for him and can't answer the questions I ask him, he pretends to take the moral high-ground, but acts like a little kid who's lost his rattle most of the time... If he's not willing to discuss it and can't even send a PM about it, but gets you to do it for him, then how is it ever going to get resolved??

[James]

1. I dont have time to set up new moderating rules/guidelines. If I did have time quite frankly I still wouldnt set them up - there are far more important things which need sorting out and I want to concentrate soley on expanding the functionality of the site. I feel this has been and will be my best form of contribution to the site and its what interests me most. I personally been over and over moderating issues so much in the past I've quite frankly lost interest in trying to get a very small minority of members 'in line'. I hand the moderating keys over to Don, if he feels he doesnt have time then I trust his judgement to hand them to someone else to look after.

 

2. After numerous emails, PMs, SMSs and phone calls to a some key members on here I sum up that Rick D is just a "windup-merchant", "[censored]-stirrer", whatever you want to call it ... New rules WILL be put in place and they WILL be adhered to. If people like Rick dont 'play ball' they will be banned indefinitely along with the likes of Wizzy BB, Justin and a couple of others who just 'didnt get it'. Sorry its either this or we all give up now and go home.

 

3. Thank you to the 99% of members who continue to back us, the concept and our ideas. CTW loyalty cards coming soon ...

[Rick D]

James said:

1. I dont have time to set up new moderating rules/guidelines. If I did have time quite frankly I still wouldnt set them up - there are far more important things which need sorting out and I want to concentrate soley on expanding the functionality of the site. I feel this has been and will be my best form of contribution to the site and its what interests me most. I personally been over and over moderating issues so much in the past I've quite frankly lost interest in trying to get a very small minority of members 'in line'. I hand the moderating keys over to Don, if he feels he doesnt have time then I trust his judgement to hand them to someone else to look after.

No, you'd rather do what you want and [censored] the consequences...

 

James said:

2. After numerous emails, PMs, SMSs and phone calls to a some key members on here I sum up that Rick D is just a "windup-merchant", "[censored]-stirrer", whatever you want to call it ... New rules WILL be put in place and they WILL be adhered to. If people like Rick dont 'play ball' they will be banned indefinitely along with the likes of Wizzy BB, Justin and a couple of others who just 'didnt get it'. Sorry its either this or we all give up now and go home.

I am just a windup-merchant and [censored]-stirrer am I James??? So, who are these key members except the moderators themselves?? What is 'playing ball'??? Can you define this then?? I guess you can't as you don't have moderating rules... Or does it depend on how you feel at any particular moment about something??? If so, then the whole site is in deep [censored] as you change your mind more times than the wind changes direction...

 

James said:

3. Thank you to the 99% of members who continue to back us, the concept and our ideas. CTW loyalty cards coming soon ...

Hahahahahaha....

[James]

Right, thats it - despite PMing Rick the rules and my concerns about him destroying mine and the boards image he wont let things drop and has to stir things up yet again.

 

I've banned him - if anyone has an issue with my actions on this its tough I'm afraid.

 

Lets move on and get back to making this the fun & friendly place it once was ...

[Wonky]

[James]

alasdairm said:

another interesting exchange of ideas.

 

i think that CTW is getting bigger and better and, as expected, the growth is causing a little strain. for what it's worth, i think the site is moderated appropriately given the nature of the content.

 

there seem to be a lot of people who shout "entitled to my opinion" or "free speech" as their position on every issue. sure you are entitled to your opinion - go and stand on the corner and tell it to the world.

 

james and CTW are under no obligation whatsoever to publish that opinion. it's incredible how many people who seem to value thr right to an opinion and to free speech misunderstand this very simple concept.

 

it's also amazing how many people who try to dress up everything as "opinion" in some weird libertarian attempt to be offensive. yes you have a right to your opinion but that doesn' tmean that everything you say is appropriate here. we're humans not monkeys and sometimes it's appropriate to expect a little more.

 

also, as with all online communities, there are a lot of people who seem to enjoy sitting behind their keyboards poking fun and telling everybody how wank everything is but have never lifted a finger to help. if you're not part of the solution you are part of the problem? probably.

 

to anybody who says that moderation on the site is 'wank' (which is so vague as to be pretty much useless), how many times have you used the 'notify moderator' button. what specific steps would you take to improve things?

 

finally, i often see the term "sheep" or "bandwagon jumper" levelled as some kind of insult by supposed 'free thinkers'. have you ever stopped to think that through? it is possible for a (large) group of people to have the same opinion yet not be sheep but i don't suppose you've ever considered that.

 

the way i see it, many people who claim they are 'free thinkers' are just using that as a way of excusing certain obnoxious behaviour- they're just conforming in different ways and are too arrogant or stupid to realise.

 

ok, that's my rant over.

 

i spend a lot of time in the serious forums and i think that they have improved dramatically since i joined. i think that having a published set of guidelines against which moderators can moderator has been a big part of that success. props to Capn_Jack, fintbeast and Don.

 

indeed, props to all the CTW moderators for their hard work at what is, it seems, essentially a thankless task.

 

alasdair

 

Exactly Alasdair.

 

These people are part of the problem which they themselves invented. We will rid the site of this disease once and for all. Far too many times have we been down this road. You wouldnt believe how many emails I get about this being an un-friendly community - a year ago I had emails saying completely the opposite.

 

Anyway, lets move on now.