The true legal status of online mixes ?

[James]

I know I keep bringing this up but does anyone know what the REAL legal status of putting up online mixes containing tunes by other artists ?

 

Is it legal to put up a mix ?

 

Is it legal if you put up a mix with a listing ?

 

Are there licence fees to pay ?

 

The answer "well other people are already doing it" isnt good enough - I need solid evidence. I want to do this properly and the long term intention is to allow a few DJs to put up their mixes and back them better.

[Lisa]

just trying to find out for you James

[Lisa]

It is illegal, but if you say it is promo use only, all rights reserved, should prevent hassel.

 

But I do know that most site's hosts, be it other sites like this or peeps own personnal websites!!

 

Dont think it is worth worrying to much over!!

[James]

The problem is that if its for promotional use only then the site would be obliged to set up a secure area - which only promotors can access.

 

As you say there are many people who are putting them on their own personal sites and this is possibly a better method as ctw wouldnt be held resonsible, but then it would be nice to have them all in one place on here ...

 

ps. a friend's server got shut down the other day - no warning - just completely shut down - took him ages to find out why - it was because they were hosting MP3s and they didnt have a licence/permission etc.. - they too were a clubbing site/board

[Lisa]

really hmm.... well I will carry on asking, I will ask my mate Dom who runs a site & he hosts shit loads of mixes etc!!

[Mark]

hi James,

 

this is something which im currently investigating myself as my company website will without a doubt contain audio downloads, both DJ mixes and personal productions from my listed producers.

 

I'll let you know when i find out anything worth while - its all down to licencing (oviously) im just waiting for some people to get back to me

[Mark]

not sure how much use this is but...

 

Licences for websites

 

QUESTION: Do I need a Performing Right Society licence and any legal disclaimers for an entertainment website and should a contract be issued to the designer to protect my ideas

 

 

ANSWER: Much depends on what you want to put on your website, of which you have provided no details. If it includes background music, downloading or streaming music, then you will need an online music licence from PRS which covers the performers' rights and you will also need a licence from the relevant record company for the particular use of their existing recording on your website. This latter is likely to be centrally controlled in the future by a licence from the Phonographic Performance Limited, who are at present in negotiations with the record companies to handle their online music rights. If you need to make a copy of the music in order to use it on your website - e.g. for use by your hosting company - then you will also need a mechanical rights licence from the Mechanical Copyright Protection Society. But note that the PRS and MCPS now operate as separate divisions of an alliance between them - the Music Alliance.

 

If the entertainment on the website includes visual excerpts from performances of films, plays or variety acts, or other copyright material such as photographs, then you will also need to obtain the consent of the relevant copyright owners of same. Publication of such material on a website will be an act protected by copyright. This is unless the purpose is for review or criticism or unless what is being published comprises simply information about the contents of or about individuals involved in performances of particular works which you have put together and collated and disseminated on the website in your own way. Such a database may well have a commercial value. Remember that copyright subsists in an original literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work and sound recordings and films from the time of creation until, broadly speaking, 70 years from the death of its original creator.

 

The layout, format and design of a website requires a considerable degree of creative, technical and design skill and is a work protected by copyright. Consequently, when commissioning the creation of one, it is highly desirable to obtain a formal assignment of copyright from the designer. Failing this, you may have nothing more than a licence, express or implied, to use the website. Said licence, unless otherwise agreed, may be non-exclusive, in which case you may find others, possibly competitors, using the same or similar designs to your detriment. You should also endeavour to obtain a moral rights waiver from the designer in case you wish to make any changes to the site without his consent in circumstances where he might complain that such changes damage his reputation. The contract should also deal with other matters such as specification issues, the quality of the design, testing, hosting, timescale, fees and payment terms, and one would expect any assignment of copyright to be conditional upon prior payment of the design fee. You should also be careful that your designer is not tempted to place well-known entertainment brand trade marks on your website, hidden away in its metatags (search engine's indexing text). This may enable your site to leap up to search engine tables but it is likely to be trade mark infringement.

 

Once the website is up and running, it is desirable to have onscreen terms of use, including disclaimers, to deal with matters such as copyright protection, liability for misuse and Data Protection Act compliance. If the owner intends to collect personal data from visitors to the website, he will also need a full data protection policy statement and possibly consent to use the data (e.g. for direct marketing). Such terms of use will vary from case to case, depending on the circumstances and in view of the importance of a website and its potential worldwide availability, it is desirable to seek specialist legal advice regarding the detail of such terms.

 

 

[Mark]

I think this might be what your looking for

 

info on PRS (Performing Right Society)

[Mr_Happy]

its illigal, clean and simple.

 

however, i think the licence fee if it was an internet radio is less than if it was downloads. so if you set it so people wasnt able to downlaod the entire file, just stream the ctw radio station then you could save some £££

 

but either way, its still gonna cost ya

[LiquidEyes]

Haven't got round to reading Mark's post yet...

 

But in a nutshell, it's naughty to do it without permission as you'd expect, because the songs are the property of the respective artists / record labels. However according to my sources in the PRS (woohoo!) they're currently trying to revolutionise the way money is distributed for internet radio / downloads.

[big_ee69]

Or you could host the site in a country eg russia, where uk performing rights licensing is unenforceable, and outside of UK legal jurisisdiction, and host what the hell u like. Unless it's windows source code obviously.

NB as their is no real case law in this area I imagine getting anyone to say definativly what is enforceable and what isn't will be a struggle.

The PRS position above is their interpration of UK law as they think it applies to UK hosted internet sites, that has yet to be properly tested.

If you ask me the Music industry has only it self to blame. they ran into the arms of digitalisation, in an effort to resell their back catalogues, for short term profit, on poorer quality media, and are now are now running around like headless chickens wonderng how to make any money, while the planet is busy iPOD swapping MP3's.

Solution: Stop recording digitally, put everything on master tapes and acetates, bring back vinyl, and hey presto your problems will be solved. Back to tape quality digital recordings. No more fucked up 28 tracks of the same crap singer overlayed artificially improved, magnified and synthehsied to buggary. I know

this might make creating electronic dance music a bit more of a challenge, but hey it would certainly bring back production values, and real muscianship. Beethoven's 9th, Sgt Pepper, Dark Side of the Moon...real music....blah blah blah...

[cupboardy]

Personally I think if you are inlcuding tracks in your mixes that are owned by record companies who give a crap and wouldn't be happy for the promotion, your tunes are too commercial.

 

 

Currently the PRS are trying to get it so clubs/DJs have to pay royalty to them if the tracks are played in a club! Madness.

 

There should be an opt-out for record companies to waive that fee whilst retaining copyright on the music.

 

James - why don't you just get people to host the files themselves. It's only going to cost you in huge amounts of storage and bandwidth. It's a nice idea but I think it could only lead to problems.

Edited February 27, 2004 by cupboardy

[James]

Yep I think we'll just leave people to host their files themselves.... but I could still set up a nicely maintained list of mixes and reviews for people (not in forums, a proper page) ?

[Mr_Happy]

QUOTE (cupboardy @ Feb 27 2004, 10:27)

Currently the PRS are trying to get it so clubs/DJs have to pay royalty to them if the tracks are played in a club! Madness.

clubs already pay

[LiquidEyes]

QUOTE (cupboardy @ Feb 27 2004, 10:27)

Currently the PRS are trying to get it so clubs/DJs have to pay royalty to them if the tracks are played in a club! Madness.

I doubt you'd be saying that if you were an underground house artist whose track was being caned in clubs, and that was one of your main sources of income!

 

IMHO it's the same difference whether something's played on radio, internet, or in a club: the person who created that work should get some kind of proportional payment for it.

 

And yes, as Laurence says, club owners are legally obliged to pay membership fees to the PRS, and in some cases to provide information as to what kind of music they are playing, chart returns and/or actual sample playlists, so that the money can be distributed fairly and proportionally amonst artists.

 

Seems fair to me!