Should Rumsfeld go?

[Guest Don]

Or should it go all the way to the top? If Rumsfeld goes, will GWB become even more pathetic and stupid (if possible).

 

Answers on the head of a pin please...

[Tresh]

If the accountabilty that our government ministers have shown for any of their fuck ups, then no he shouldn't go.

Edited May 7, 2004 by Tresh

[alasdairm]

it gets worse: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/

 

EXCERPT:

 

“There are other photos that depict incidents of physical violence towards prisoners, acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhumane," he said. “... It’s going to get a good deal more terrible, I’m afraid.”

 

Rumsfeld did not describe the photos, but U.S. military officials told NBC News that the unreleased images showed U.S. soldiers severely beating an Iraqi prisoner nearly to death, having sex with a female Iraqi female prisoner and “acting inappropriately with a dead body.” The officials said there was also a videotape, apparently shot by U.S. personnel, showing Iraqi guards raping young boys.

 

alasdair

[russelldust]

he's a w*nker (c*nt gets edited as 'lovely person'... wtf?)

 

to my mind this follows precisely from the farce of Guantanamo Bay- if you legitimise holding 'non combatants' (a class of prisoner not recognised in any legal system- i.e. completely made up by rumsfield, bush & co.) outside the bounds of national, or international law, without trial, withour access to lawyers for an indeterminate period of time, you show exactly how much contempt for the law you have...

 

ergo a thick as shit soldier sees no problem in beating the shite (and worse) out of Iraqi PoWs... and from what the Red Cross have been saying it really does go to the top as abuse was so widespread as to be seen as tolerated, or even a modus operandi...

 

Bush is fucked come the election and it looks like Blair could well be going the same way...

Edited May 8, 2004 by russelldust

[Ian Cashman]

they should be held up to account in an international court...

 

 

not that that is ever gonna happen

[russelldust]

... because the Americans refuse to recoginse the International Court in the Hague...

[Alex]

Rumsfeld is an idiot. He must go.

[Guest Don]

Rumsfeld is unlucky. He's actually in charge of the US, and just pulling GWB's strings - Rumsfeld is the puppet master.

 

Someone else will take the fall, and Rumsfeld will just keep on making $$$$

[Guest Kether]

I can't stand Rumsfeld, he's so hawkish it's untrue and the world would be a better place without him.

 

As for the mistreatment of prisoners: I'm pretty sure that the iraqis would treat British and American prisoners the same (if they didn't just shoot them). They're at war and war fucks you up. Those people are out to kill you and with emotions running high, especially with your friends dying around you, you're going to want to take it out on someone.

 

I'm not condoning their actions but I think they need to be taken into context. Abuse of PoWs is as old as war itself. It's just that with mass media prying into every action, the soldiers (who are trained to be killing machines) now have to go against all their training and treat them like they're in the Hilton.

 

It's never going to happen I'm afraid, and that's why nobody will resign over this.

[Alex]

The Brits treatment of POW's isn't that bad (if those photo's are true). Soldiers are trained in how to take POW's and to do so they are subjected to the same treatment, so they know how it feels and how to go about it (also in case they are captured so they know what to expect). If you're trained to de-humanise the enemy, to kill them without thought then how do people expect the Infantry to treat POW's with kid gloves. It's shock tactics.

 

As for the US treatment of POW's, well that's just a little over the top and being done so by non combat troops. Just a bunch of masochistic idiots who believe the Iraqi's are responsible for the September the 11th attacks and are out to get "their" revenge.

[Scream]

QUOTE (Alex @ May 10 2004, 12:46)

The Brits treatment of POW's isn't that bad (if those photo's are true). Soldiers are trained in how to take POW's and to do so they are subjected to the same treatment, so they know how it feels and how to go about it (also in case they are captured so they know what to expect). If you're trained to de-humanise the enemy, to kill them without thought then how do people expect the Infantry to treat POW's with kid gloves. It's shock tactics. As for the US treatment of POW's, well that's just a little over the top and being done so by non combat troops. Just a bunch of masochistic idiots who believe the Iraqi's are responsible for the September the 11th attacks and are out to get "their" revenge.

i totally agree with you there.

 

The photos of the British troops abusing Iraqi POWs are now looking to be more fake than ever. I mean our photos are high quality B&W images, whereas the Americans photos are poor quality, clearly show who's doing the beatings and other such cruel acts. The British photos just look fake, and in the Sun they even prooved that within 30mins they could fake the same photosgraphs. There is a lot of things in those photos that look dodgy. There are probably a few cases where British troops have been abusing POWs, but then again if these are troops that have just seen friends that have been WIA or KIA then they are gonna want revenge. In those situations it's hard to seperate those feelings from the people you're looking after. They are human beings and should be treated with respects regardless of what they have done. How can we expect to help them if we give them even more reason to hate us?!

 

We're only stirring a hornet's nest and it will back fire eventually. Bush was a bloody fool to invade Iraq, and Blair was an even bigger idiot to follow. We had the common sense during the Vietnam war to tell America to sod off because we didn't want to be a part of that war. We would of been wise to do the same again. Looks like America could be in the same stupid mess again, but this time we're envloved too. The one thing they don't want America's puplic to think is, not another Vietnam. Could look that way even with one senate calling for enscription. Idiots!!!!

 

Rumsfeld should stop trying to hide behind legal jargon and admit the trueth. Ironically it would probably be that that would make people respect him more, as people can clearly see he's just bullshittin!!

[Alex]

I like the way Rumsfeld said (I'm going to paraphrase this a lot).

 

"If it wasn't for the use and availability of digital cameras then none of this would be a problem.... Oh and by the way I'm kinda sorry this happened."

Edited May 10, 2004 by Alex

[Jessica Rabbit]

TBH I don't know why anyone is surprised about the torture allegations, because at the end of the day it is a very easy way to get information out of POWs very quickly. If you think that are troops aren't involved in it then are very naive.

[Scream]

QUOTE (Jessica Rabbit @ May 10 2004, 13:34)

TBH I don't know why anyone is surprised about the torture allegations, because at the end of the day it is a very easy way to get information out of POWs very quickly. If you think that are troops aren't involved in it then are very naive.

there are ways to extract information out of people, but you don't have to beat them!! You can extract it psychological. I think messin with someone psychological is a far more effective way to get information out of someone, rather beating them! By the photos we see they're not gettin information but humilating them!!

[Lisa]

but it is ok for some countries to tie prisoners up & march & drag them down the road & video it & show it??????