serious issues Should drugs be legalised?

[LiquidEyes]

As a side note ... all too many people are quick to use the word "natural" without questioning what it really means. I can think of a lot of things that are "natural", or happen "in nature", that are very unpleasant or undesirable.

[russelldust]

so much for doing some work...

 

I think this goes back to what I was trying to say at the beginning and which Andy has mentioned many times... it is not necessarily that any of these drugs are bad IN MODERATION, the problem is that a very small minority of people do not understand what the meaning of moderation is...

 

... I fail to see why I should be made to suffer or be criminalised just because there is a certain section of society that is unable to act sensibly...

 

should I be banned from driving because certain other people decide to speed.

 

I fully believe in personal responsibility- and whilst I understand Lou's comments about it being your own responsibiltiy if you decide to break the law, if we can step back a little (and accept that the 'law' could, perhaps be wrong).

 

There is an increasing absence of personal responsibility in society as we become more and more litigious to the extent that many professional people (doctors, lawyers, surveyors etc...) live in permanent fear of being sued for some sort of negligence or other.

 

To my mind the law on drugs is the same thing.

I should have responsibility for my own body and what I do with it.

 

If I choose to use my fist to break someone's jaw then I should go to jail.

If I choose to use my genitals to rape someone I should go to jail...

 

I simply don't see the extension that if I choose to take some drug or other which can only harm myself then I also deserve to go to jail.

 

And if there are side effects that only affect me rather than anyone else. So what. I am an adult, I have the vote. If I wont to take drugs until I collapse in a dance-induced stupor. So be it.

 

 

 

[Louise]

are the laws here to try and completely stamp out drug use? (in an ideal world, i know)

 

if thats the case then i spose they are doing it to prevent drugs coming into the wrong hands such as children or those that would use them for completely different reasons like a rapist would use rohypnol or GHB on a victim

 

i know thats a completely different issue to what your discussing

[Lisa]

I know what you are saying Lou, but it already happens now, whether it is illegal or otherwise, it will find ways to filter through, as Dawn pointed out yesterday, if drugs were made legal, people would find ways to get hold of them via other, cheaper means.

[LiquidEyes]

QUOTE (russelldust @ May 27 2004, 15:56)

There is an increasing absence of personal responsibility in society as we become more and more litigious to the extent that many professional people (doctors, lawyers, surveyors etc...) live in permanent fear of being sued for some sort of negligence or other. To my mind the law on drugs is the same thing. I should have responsibility for my own body and what I do with it.

^ An excellent parallel, which I hadn't thought about. I too am sick of people not taking responsibility for their own actions ... I detest the American "blame culture" which seems to be infiltrating the UK.

 

And yes, if I kill myself by taking a stupid amount of legalised ecstasy, or turn into a mental case because I use it as a form of escapism from my crap life (hmm I wonder which is the actual problem and which is the symptom here...) then so be it, it's my fault, not the government's fault for somehow "condoning" drugs. I still had the choice to say no.

 

So long as the information is there, it's very much like any other pleasure in life. I know that I will have a heart attack sooner or later if I carry on eating curry at this rate. However I believe it's my right (and prerogative) to choose my own fate, and strike my own happy balance between short-term and long-term happiness.

 

Telling people what they can and can't do to their own body is nothing short of fascist.

[Louise]

ooops, this was to lisas post

 

but thats the point, if they are made more readily available wouldnt that help those that want to rape using? they have more chance of getting away with it with the help of some GHB/R ................. after all isnt that the reason GHB became illegal in the first place, yes people will still be able to get hold of it but theres no need to help matters

Edited May 27, 2004 by Louise

[Lisa]

QUOTE (Louise @ May 27 2004, 16:10)

ooops, this was to lisas post but thats the point, if they are made more readily available wouldnt that help those that want to rape using? they have more chance of getting away with it with the help of some GHB/R ................. after all isnt that the reason GHB became illegal in the first place, yes people will still be able to get hold of it but theres no need to help matters

oh yeh totally, this is why, IMO, only some should be considered for being made legal, not all

[spike]

QUOTE (LiquidEyes @ May 27 2004, 15:50)

As a side note ... all too many people are quick to use the word "natural" without questioning what it really means. I can think of a lot of things that are "natural", or happen "in nature", that are very unpleasant or undesirable.

What DOES 'natural' mean then? cos i'm sure there are lots of meanings behind this word.

[LiquidEyes]

QUOTE (spike @ May 27 2004, 16:48)

What DOES 'natural' mean then? cos i'm sure there are lots of meanings behind this word.

More to the point, where does this idea come from that "natural" = "good"?

[russelldust]

QUOTE (LiquidEyes @ May 27 2004, 17:09)

QUOTE (spike @ May 27 2004, 16:48) What DOES 'natural' mean then? cos i'm sure there are lots of meanings behind this word. More to the point, where does this idea come from that "natural" = "good"? In the sense of tits...   natural = good   silicone = farcical     (this is wholly from research in Japanese hostess bars by the way)

[spike]

QUOTE (LiquidEyes @ May 27 2004, 17:09)

QUOTE (spike @ May 27 2004, 16:48) What DOES 'natural' mean then? cos i'm sure there are lots of meanings behind this word. More to the point, where does this idea come from that "natural" = "good"? Homegrown vegatables mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Guest Kether]

Yes.

[Ginge]

I've just got back from work and I'm still trying to figure out when I said there are "OBVIOUS" reasons why natural products should be legal.

 

I DID say that IMO anything natural should be made legal but I NEVER stated that there were OBVIOUS reasons. (I feel I have to repeat myself just incase people dont understand first time round)

 

Yes, OK, there are some very poisonous plants out there like Belladonna but used in the right quantities it can also be used for medicinal purposes.

 

OBVIOUSLY LiquidEyes and I are NEVER going to agree, I have my opinions, he has his, neither of us are right OR wrong but he'll probably disagree with that aswell.

 

At the end of the day the government does seriously need to look at how medieval the law is (not JUST drugs but virtually all of them) and do something about it.

[Guest Kether]

I don't think most people have really considered the ramifications of legalisation fully. Arguing whether natural compounds should be legal over synthetic is ridiculous and completely missing the point of the thread (IMHO).

 

There are fare more important societal reasons why drugs should be legalised.

 

1) Drug dealers would be put out of business over night. Producing most pharmaceutical drugs is cheap, it's the black market which raises the price. Good for the consumers and good for people who want to see organised drug gangs out of action.

 

2) Considering that a large proportion of crimes are comitted by a small amount of people trying to fund drug habits then allowing, say heroin addicts, their fix would stop them comitting crime and allow them to take heroin that they know is pure would remove them from the cycle of crime (if they were given their H on prescription) and would allow them to live a normal life. Studies show that people can live a normal life on heroin. It's trying to find the money, and the inpurities in street deals that cause them more damage.

 

3) Awareness would increase to levels similar to those that we have for alcohol and cigarettes. If people really want to do drugs, you can't stop them. You may aswell give them the best, at the correct doses and make sure that people have the knowledge to do them in the safest way.

 

4) It would allow police to redirect their resources to more pressing matters than busting kids for enjoying a few pills at the weekend.

 

5) We don't need to be nannied by the state, if I want to put something into my body I will. The laws don't stop me doing that already. In fact they're almost unenforcable. Laws that are unenforcable make a mockery of those laws: ie, what are they there for? We resent the fact that what we do at the weekend is illegal when we're not harming anybody when people can get pissed freely and get into fights etc.

 

It's interesting to note that if tobacco and alcohol were discovered today they would both be instantly made class A. They're socially acceptable, drugs (on the whole) aren't and I don't see that changing any time soon.

[Ginge]

A few good points there Kether...I'd just LOVE to see what LiquidEyes says to all that.