Here's a Hardstyle track I made about 4 months ago

[LiquidEyes]

QUOTE (Mr_Happy @ Jun 10 2004, 17:41)

theres no rule saying hardhouse *has* to be aprox. 150 bpm kick drum and predictable breakdowns. ... hardhouse has become so generic that producers creating something a little different feel the need to re-classify their output to avoid the stigma of being a hardhouse producer. which is fair enough if it gets them noticed. all i'm saying is look at the variation in the different styles of house, techno and trance and then look at the variation in hardhouse/ hardtrance and hardstyle.

^ yeah that. Well put Laurence. One of your most articulate posts ever!

 

LTM, I was just being provocative with my "discuss" comment. Besides, the link didn't work anyway.

 

I still stand by my comments though ... it just goes to show that the people who coin these supposed genres don't really "think outside the box" and actually listen to anything much apart from hard house. If they did, and actually realised how varied genres such as trance and techno and house are, they would realise how silly it is to pigeonhole every single little variation on hard house.

 

I think the reason I find it silly is because of the defensive undertones; it's like, "well my track has elements of trance / hard house / whatever but I'm embarrassed to admit that it really is X..." I say: go out there, be proud that you've done a good hard house / trance / whatever tune (maybe pushed the boundaries a bit) but don't pretend it's something that it's not!

 

Every month I buy a heap of tunes that have a mixture of technoey, trancey and housey influences, but I don't make up a new name for every single combination of those elements.

 

Besides "hardstyle" is an inherently cliquey expression ... it isn't a very descriptive term is it.

 

rant>

 

Anyway it's a never-ending debate ... will give your tune a listen now...!

[LiquidEyes]

After a first listen - well produced track LTM. It sounds like absolutely archetypal hard house to me. But as that kind of thing goes, it ain't bad. Well done mate.

 

BTW I actively followed HH for a couple of years and I know HH when I hear it. I'm not just dissing HH because I know nothing about it. The bassline could have been taken off any number of "Warp Brothers" type mainstream hard house records. But you obviously know a thing or two about production, so keep it up.

[LTM]

thanks.

Edited June 10, 2004 by LTM

[Ian Cashman]

QUOTE (Chris Hutchinson @ Jun 10 2004, 19:53)

QUOTE (Jay @ Jun 9 2004, 11:28) fuck knows what hardstyle is, or the difference to that other new genre freeform. its fast hard house or hardcore to me. A hardhouse track: http://www.bangingtunes.com/play.asp?ItemI...POINT004&Side=A     A Freeform Track: http://audio.nuenergy.co.uk/samples/nunrg036-a.rm     A Hardcore track: http://www.nuenergy.co.uk/ram/EV072-AA       there ya go, that will hopefully help you tell the difference first two are pretty much the same but the second one is faster and even cheesier.   3rd one is what always USED TO BE called gabba. Dutch boneheaded neo-nazi football hooligan music.   sorry if thats unconstructive.

[Guest]

i havnt got a clue how you are supposed to dance to the freeform track

 

btw chris - you couldnt have picked a worse 3 tunes to show off those 3 'genres'

Edited June 11, 2004 by Mr_Happy

[LiquidEyes]

QUOTE (Ian Cashman @ Jun 11 2004, 00:37)

3rd one is what always USED TO BE called gabba. Dutch boneheaded neo-nazi football hooligan music.

LOL

 

I do agree, the gabba/hardcore end of the hard dance spectrum seems to be the dance-equivalent of super-heavy death metal. It's like a competition to make the hardest/fastest track, rather than something which is actually good ... one-dimensional music IMHO!

[Chris Hutchinson]

QUOTE (Mr_Happy @ Jun 11 2004, 01:13)

btw chris - you couldnt have picked a worse 3 tunes to show off those 3 'genres'

 

they were the first3 there...although saying that, I do quite like 'deformed' and 'world of illusion' ;-)

 

and gabba is a LOT harder :-)

Edited June 11, 2004 by Chris Hutchinson

[LiquidEyes]

QUOTE (Chris Hutchinson @ Jun 11 2004, 11:44)

and gabba is a LOT harder :-)

Same difference. You don't need a new genre for each different stage of hardness!

[Chris Hutchinson]

QUOTE (LiquidEyes @ Jun 11 2004, 11:49)

QUOTE (Chris Hutchinson @ Jun 11 2004, 11:44) and gabba is a LOT harder :-) Same difference. You don't need a new genre for each different stage of hardness! gabba sounds nowt like hardcore tho - even the kick drums are a completely different sound!

[Chris Hutchinson]

QUOTE (LiquidEyes @ Jun 11 2004, 11:03)

QUOTE (Ian Cashman @ Jun 11 2004, 00:37) 3rd one is what always USED TO BE called gabba. Dutch boneheaded neo-nazi football hooligan music. LOL   I do agree, the gabba/hardcore end of the hard dance spectrum seems to be the dance-equivalent of super-heavy death metal. It's like a competition to make the hardest/fastest track, rather than something which is actually good ... one-dimensional music IMHO! gabba maybe...but hardcore is just hardtrance, with 90% of the tracks in the 170-175bpm range - very few stray above that tempo so its most certainly not a case of 'lets see how fast we can make it' - Moby once made a track at 1000bpm - I reckon he wins lol

[Chris Hutchinson]

doh - just noticed that I linked the wrong track for hardcore... no wonder it was being confused with gabba :-/

 

http://www.nuenergy.co.uk/ram/ng029-A is the link that I meant to copy-paste

[Guest]

QUOTE (Chris Hutchinson @ Jun 11 2004, 12:38)

doh - just noticed that I linked the wrong track for hardcore... no wonder it was being confused with gabba :-/ http://www.nuenergy.co.uk/ram/ng029-A is the link that I meant to copy-paste

you dont even know what hardcore is yourself

 

(jk btw)

 

 

in all seriousness tho - thanks for the links

its always good to listen to other peoples interpretation of music

[LiquidEyes]

QUOTE (Chris Hutchinson @ Jun 11 2004, 12:01)

gabba sounds nowt like hardcore tho - even the kick drums are a completely different sound!

LOL ... so a difference in kick drum can justify a new genre as well can it ... you're just proving my point Chris!

 

For the record, yes I have heard hardcore (as in proper hardcore, not happy bollocks) and I've heard gabba, and yes they sound different, but I don't take either genre seriously -- it's still "how hard can you go" nutter music. They are all fundamentally "bosh bosh" music that revolves around the fast BPM and unsubtle hard sounds.

 

I would describe gabba as hardcore combined with "all the worst things about techno".

 

If we really have to acknowledge 155bpm+ four-to-the-floor dance music as a "proper" genre in its own right, I think hardcore is a fair generalisation for all those styles of music. Because beyond a certain BPM, house can no longer have any sense of funkiness; and beyond a certain level of hardness/noisiness, it makes fuck all difference whether the hardness comes from the kick drum, the bass, a load of sampled white noise or whatever. It just becomes a subtley different blend of "stomp"/"bosh" elements, "noise" elements, and fast rhythmic elements. It's still fundamentally just a barrage of fast sounds for people who are fucked.

 

I think hard house effectively straddles both "hardcore" and "house/techno", because it's at a compromising BPM where it is still danceable (to people who are not fucked!) and (when it's done well) actually can have a bit of depth.

Edited June 11, 2004 by LiquidEyes

[Ian Cashman]

QUOTE (Mr_Happy @ Jun 11 2004, 12:40)

QUOTE (Chris Hutchinson @ Jun 11 2004, 12:38) doh - just noticed that I linked the wrong track for hardcore... no wonder it was being confused with gabba :-/ you dont even know what hardcore is yourself

[LiamStyles]

QUOTE (LiquidEyes @ Jun 11 2004, 13:01)

but *I* don't take either genre seriously

Can i just say, and this goes to everyone.......

 

Im just using Andys post as its the most recent.

 

The emphasis of my point is centred around the word "I".

 

Why is it so many of you are intent on arguing over something that is personal to each individual? You may not take a genre seriously, or even consider it a genre (etc etc etc) but that doesnt make you right/wrong or whatever. It seems as though people are either out to prove a point (in a snobby "My music is better than music" way) or you are just plain ignorant.

I have no issue with people wanting to express their views on something music related (afterall the majority of us are all passionate about the music we follow). However, If you feel the need to express you views, you must also make an effort to listen to other peoples views (whether you agree with them or not)

 

These comments are made from me as a member who posts in these forums, but I have been chosen to be a moderator and will moderate as I see fit. I am not happy with some of the comments made lately, all I ask is that you take into consideration that no-one will ever win one of these arguments/debates....so why drag it out?

 

Thanks guys.